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List: bacula-devel
Subject: Re: [Bacula-devel] [Bacula-users] Request for help
From: Kern Sibbald <kern () sibbald ! com>
Date: 2015-02-02 8:34:03
Message-ID: 54CF367B.7050701 () sibbald ! com
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I do not remember ever saying that
forks are bad, though somewhat jokingly I wrote a blog "Not all
Forks are Bad", which should convey the idea that I am not
particularly in favor of forking (i.e. starting a new project) in
most cases. Note, I use the word fork in the original sense of
creating a new project while git people typically use the word
fork these days to mean "make some changes" as probably 99.9% of
git forks are really just patches to the original and not a new
project.<br>
<br>
I have heard the arguments about me blogging about Bareos being
bad for Bacula and just advertising Bareos, and though there is
something there, I think the advantages of telling people the
truth outweigh the disadvantages of solely hearing very well
crafted spin-doctoring from Bareos.<br>
<br>
If you look at the Bacula Systems vs Bareos lawsuit from the point
of view of the Bacula Systems board of directors, which is
responsible for assuring the salaries of quite a few people
including the open source "fanatic" founders (6 of the 8), you
might understand that when someone steals code that differentiates
(short term) Bacula Enterprise from Bacula community, which is
what permits those employees to live, you will understand that
Bacula Systems had no choice. To do nothing would have been a
blank check to steal even more code. <br>
<br>
Unfortunately, there are very few open source companies that
survive only on improving the product and selling services -- the
world does not (yet) work that way. Open core companies can,
however, survive if they work very hard, and most open core
companies contribute back to the community.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Kern<br>
<br>
On 01.02.2015 20:46, Ben Erridge wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAGHO83iXtOQ3n9GEcTrQpu3ysX2a5RXtMhi0xDNaXp1Q2gdZ3g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;line-height:100%">
<font color="#222222"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><font
style="font-size:12pt">I
doubt my opinion holds much weight either way but if
you want my
opinion here it is;</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;line-height:100%"><font
color="#222222"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><font
style="font-size:12pt"><br>
</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;line-height:100%">
<font color="#222222"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><font
style="font-size:12pt">As
anyone would expect both sides say the other one is
lying about many
things. I can only assume, at this point, the truth
lies
somewhere in between. </font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;line-height:100%"><font
color="#222222"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><font
style="font-size:12pt"><br>
</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;line-height:100%">
<font color="#222222"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><font
style="font-size:12pt">With
that said I think this lawsuit only hurts Bacula. I
never even heard
of Bareos until this lawsuit came up. Then I started
reading about it
all over the place. Including a bunch of nonsense out
of the Bacula
camp like, "If you use Baroes software, Bacula will
sue you" and
"Braching is bad for open source". All that really put
a bad
taste in my mouth about Bacula, especially because I
could Identify
with things the Bareos camp was saying like, "Bacula
isn't updating
the open source project" which was certainly true.
Along with the
fact that I find this whole open core model to be
distasteful and
anit-opensource in general. No Windows client binaries
available
without paying Bacula Systems for them for how long? \
</font></font></font> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;line-height:100%">
<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;line-height:100%">
<font color="#222222"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><font
style="font-size:12pt">Most
of this has no real baring on the cases merit But I
think everything
that has happened has hurt Bacula's reputation
significantly and will
likely hurt the project more than it will help the
project if the
lawsuit is successful. If the lawsuit fails then
Bacula looks even
worse. Also, while this lawsuit is carrying on, it
only spotlights
the fact that there isn't a really good open source
competitor which
will undoubtedly kick start numerous projects. (Not
sure that is a
bad thing but it is definitely bad for Bacula \
Systems)</font></font></font></p> <p style="margin-bottom:0in;line-height:100%">
<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;line-height:100%">
<font color="#222222"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><font
style="font-size:12pt">I
think if Bacula would have moved on and just focused
on making a
better product and selling services they would have
continued to be
the de facto standard backup solution on Linux for a
long time. </font></font></font>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;line-height:100%">
<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;line-height:100%">
<font color="#222222"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><font
style="font-size:12pt">That
is my humble opinion. I truly wish you the best and I
certainly do
not condone the stealing of code.</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;line-height:100%"><font
color="#222222"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><font
style="font-size:12pt">Ben</font></font></font></p>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 12:51 PM, Kern
Sibbald <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kern@sibbald.com" \
target="_blank">kern@sibbald.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Hello,<br>
<br>
You are entitled to your opinion, but I find that such
opinions don't carry as much weight as they would if
you give some reason for it.<br>
<br>
My reason is simple: Bacula Systems has spent quite a
lot of money (over $1 Million) paying salaries to
develop code for Bacula Enterprise. It has given a
very large chunk of that code (somewhere between
50-80%) back to the community and will give much more
over time. One of the persons involved in the lawsuit
took proprietary code developed by Bacula Systems and
released it in the public Bareos git repository
without authorization. He apparently has in his
possession something around an additional 100,000
lines of proprietary code that he could also release.<br>
<br>
I have devoted most of my time since 1998 to open
source and spent 15 years developing the Bacula
community version, which is 100% open source, and by
creating up Bacula Systems, much more code than I
could ever create alone will be contributed to the
Bacula community project.<br>
<br>
I believe that anyone who steals proprietary code and
releases it publicly through an open source fork
(Bareos) has very poor ethical standards and is
damaging the whole open source community.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Kern
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 01.02.2015 18:33, Ben Erridge wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">As a former Bacula user I would
like to express that I do not support this
lawsuit. </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at
12:26 PM, Kern Sibbald <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kern@sibbald.com"
target="_blank">kern@sibbald.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Hello,<br>
<br>
I don't usually as for help on these lists,
because I feel I am here to<br>
build something for you (Bacula) and serve
you rather than the other way<br>
around. If that intrigues you, please read
on ...<br>
<br>
The first hearing for the Bacula Systems vs
Bareos lawsuit is coming up<br>
the 9th of February.<br>
<br>
I am sending this to everyone on the Bacula
lists. You may not be a<br>
developer or a contributor, but as a Bacula
user you can still show your<br>
support for the Bacula project by filling
out and sending in (scan +<br>
email) an FLA. The issues are described
below -- basically Bareos, which<br>
is without any legal standing is
nevertheless attacking my and thus<br>
Bacula Systems right to have a proprietary
version of Bacula. If Bareos<br>
wins, it may signal the end of the Bacula
open source project as you<br>
have known it for the last 15 years, because
the major contributor to<br>
the Bacula community version is Bacula
Systems, and Bacula Systems<br>
would no longer be in a position to
contribute to the Bacula project.<br>
<br>
Please help the Bacula project by printing,
signing, and sending the<br>
attached FLA to me by post, or by scanning
it and sending it by email<br>
as an attachment (all pages, please).<br>
<br>
More details:<br>
<br>
Unfortunately since Bareos forked the Bacula
code myself, Bacula, and<br>
Bacula Systems have been challenged by a
former Bacula developer who<br>
says I misled him in signing the FLA as he
did in May of 2010. He claims<br>
that he did not know I intended to take
Bacula into the Enterprise<br>
market with proprietary code. Furthermore,
he claims (with no real<br>
basis, in my opinion) that I do not have
FLAs from everyone who<br>
contributed and that the project must start
as a dual licensed project<br>
(totally untrue). Note, Bacula Systems was
formed in 2008, but dual<br>
licensing only started in the 2011-2012 time
frame.<br>
<br>
Concerning Bacula Systems having a
proprietary version of Bacula, as you<br>
probably know the FSFE, Bacula Systems and
me representing the Bacula<br>
community have recently (Sept 2013) signed
an agreement where the<br>
features developed by Bacula Systems for fee
paying customers will be<br>
migrated overtime into the community version
(many are migrated in the<br>
next community version). In fact, since
2008, Bacula Systems has been<br>
by far the major contributor of code to the
Bacula community version by<br>
far. By creating Bacula Systems and signing
the agreement with the FSFE,<br>
I have found a way to ensure the
sustainability of Bacula community from<br>
fees paid for by enterprise clients that
permit implementing new Bacula<br>
Enterprise features that will flow back to
the community version. For<br>
me, this ensures a bright future for Bacula
both in the Enterprise<br>
market and in the community, and obviously I
am very happy about it.<br>
<br>
All my plans for the future of Bacula could
go up in smoke<br>
because according to Bareos and this former
Bacula developer, in May of<br>
2010 when I solicited a number of FLAs, I
was not<br>
explicit enough in saying that Bacula
Systems could develop a<br>
proprietary version. Obviously I believe
this is ridiculous. I would be<br>
surprised, but if you believe that I mislead
you or the community at any<br>
time, I am very sorry, and I would
appreciate it if you would tell me<br>
what you think.<br>
<br>
For the above reasons, we are asking
everyone who contributed to sign an<br>
FLA, otherwise, because of Bareos and this
former developer we may be<br>
required to remove or rewrite contributions
for which we do not have a<br>
more current FLA.<br>
<br>
For the future of Bacula, I would really
appreciate it if you would fill<br>
out, sign, and send the new FLA version 7.0,
attached to this email, to<br>
me by post or scanned copy. This will ensure
that I hold a clear and<br>
valid copyright for everything and that
Bacula and Bacula Systems can<br>
continue to grow. This request is very
unusual, but your participation<br>
would be a very nice vote of confidence. In
addition, if you have ever<br>
contributed anything -- even something very
small where we do not<br>
usually require an FLA, it would be even a
more significant help to the<br>
Bacula project.<br>
<br>
Being a programmer myself, I know that this
administration stuff is<br>
unpleasant.<br>
<br>
If you have questions see below ...<br>
<br>
Thank you for your contribution(s) to and/or
support for the Bacula project.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Kern<br>
Bacula Project Manager<br>
<br>
Q: I don't understand the FLA.<br>
A: Yes, it has a number of technical points
and lots of words to make<br>
sure there is no problems due to different
laws in different countries,<br>
and to avoid problems of possible multiple
versions. The basic points<br>
for the Bacula project are:<br>
<br>
1. You wrote some code/documentation/other
and you contributed it to<br>
the Bacula project.<br>
2. In order for the Bacula project and
Bacula Systems to be able to<br>
use the code, you assign the copyright
to me (Kern Sibbald).<br>
3. I then give back to you a license to
use your code as you want.<br>
4. Bottom line, we can both legally use
the code.<br>
<br>
Q: I already signed an FLA is this one
necessary?<br>
A: Yes, more than ever, because it shows
your support for Bacula and me,<br>
and without it I may need to re-write your
contribution, which would be<br>
a set back for the community.<br>
<br>
Q: I already signed one with the Free
Software Foundation Europe (FSFE),<br>
won't signing this one be a conflict?<br>
A: The attached FLA is written to permit
signing both agreements without<br>
conflict.<br>
<br>
Q: I don't think my contribution is
important enough to warrant an FLA.<br>
A: Strictly speaking if you contributed only
a couple lines or a simple<br>
fix, that is probably true, but I have
learned that with legal matters<br>
it is better to be safe than sorry, and more
than anything else, it<br>
shows your support and solidarity with
Bacula and myself.<br>
<br>
Q: I am too busy.<br>
A: Yes, I understand that. I am too busy to
hassle you for this, but I<br>
am doing it to cover all bases possible to
keep the community and Bacula<br>
Systems working to continue to develop and
improve Bacula even when I<br>
retire from the project.<br>
<br>
Q: I don't have a scanner.<br>
A: Please send it by post, or take a
pictures of all the pages with your<br>
mobile telephone (or camera) and email them
to me.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br> </blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div>Benjamin Erridge<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">Benjamin Erridge<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
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