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Subject: [users@httpd] RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [users@httpd] timeout and keepalive parameter in ProxyPass
From: "Orendt, John" <john.p.orendt () medtronic ! com ! INVALID>
Date: 2021-10-19 14:48:37
Message-ID: MW4PR05MB863365B1F435ABD0F2BD786FA1BD9 () MW4PR05MB8633 ! namprd05 ! prod ! outlook ! com
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Hi
I use a different approach to these types of requests.
The back end request immediately returns a status message "Request Received"
On Subsequent Requests returns a status message "Working"
Finally, Subsequent Request returns a status message "Ready" with results.
John Orendt
John.p.orendt@medtronic.com
From: Usha Nayak <ushanay@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 10:37 AM
To: users@httpd.apache.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [users@httpd] timeout and keepalive parameter in ProxyPass
Hello
Thank you for your response. However, I'm still a bit fuzzy when it comes to the \
keepalive and timeout attribute.
I understand keepalive=On attribute by itself but in combination with timeout is \
where I'm unclear.
In the scenario that I presented with following:
* timeout=3600 keepalive=On attributes
* backend server taking a long time processing the request sent by client ( \
note: no streaming any data from server yet since it's busy processing the request, \
let's say processing time on server is 4 hrs )
* OS settings are set to send TCP Keep alive packet in every 2 mins
My guess:
* With TCP keep alive probes sent and ACK between 'Apache httpd' machine and \
'Backend server' machine, we can be assured that there's no inactive or idle TCP \
connection.
* But, from the 'Apache Httpd' application point of view, it hasn't received the \
data from the server in 1 hr(3600), and therefore 'Apache Httpd' will initiate a \
timeout. When the 'Backend Server' is ready in 4 hrs to stream the response back, \
there's no ' Apache Httpd' client to receive the response. Please do correct me if \
I'm thinking this incorrectly,
Appreciate all the help
Thanks.
On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 10:03 AM Dino Ciuffetti \
<dino@tuxweb.it<mailto:dino@tuxweb.it>> wrote: The global "Timeout" parameter is \
needed to set the length of time Apache httpd will wait for I/O in various \
circumstances. https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/mod/core.html#timeout<https://urldefe \
nse.com/v3/__https:/httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/mod/core.html*timeout__;Iw!!NFcUtLLUcw!DmkJVqMAt4NaSGwLZq93nIthjgNb1gK5MwyqdCke2kFmEvHGUM062jIb-qTQ7np89F8i_g$>
The "keepalive" attribute of ProxyPass can be used to fool your network equipments \
(like intermediate firewalls) to mantain the tcp connection between apache and its \
backends open even when no data is passing from and to the wires. Some network \
equipment like firewalls tend to drop inactive (silent) connections too early (from \
my experience ~30 min but your mileage may vary).
The "timeout" attribute of ProxyPass is the number of seconds Apache httpd waits for \
data sent by / to the backend. So in your case apache will close a inactive \
connection with the backend in 1hr, but while your backend continue to stream data \
the connection will be kept open. Yes, it's a sort of application timeout.
There is also the "connectiontimeout" attribute of ProxyPass that will consider a new \
TCP connection with the backend not valid if it takes the specified time to complete \
(TCP SYN + SYN/ACK + ACK) so it can be retried earlier.
13 ottobre 2021 16:22, "Usha Nayak" \
<ushanay@gmail.com<mailto:ushanay@gmail.com?to=%22Usha%20Nayak%22%20%3Cushanay@gmail.com%3E>> \
wrote: Hello
Need help in understanding the highlighted parameters:
ProxyPass "/example" \
"http://backend.example.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/backend.example.com__;!! \
NFcUtLLUcw!DmkJVqMAt4NaSGwLZq93nIthjgNb1gK5MwyqdCke2kFmEvHGUM062jIb-qTQ7npt-Xfx7Q$>" \
timeout=3600 keepalive=On keepalive parameter - As I understand relates to TCP or \
socket keep alive probes that are sent to prevent idle connection. \
[cid:image001.png@01D7C4D6.CF3A0310] My confusion is :
Assuming the backend server takes 4 hrs to process a request and I have 'keepalive \
on' in Apache httpd with the OS setting to send tcp probes every 2 minutes. Backend \
server and Apache httpd are sending TCP keep alive packets to indicate the socket \
connection is not idle.
* In this case, would the 'apache httpd' close the connection in 1 hr ( timeout = \
3600) because the 'apache httpd' didn't get the http data? Is this timeout 'apache \
httpd' application timeout ? Appreciate help.
Thanks.
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I use a different approach to these types of \
requests.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The back end request immediately returns a status message \
"Request Received"<o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Subsequent Requests returns a status message \
"Working"<o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Finally, Subsequent Request returns a status message "Ready" \
with results.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">John Orendt<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">John.p.orendt@medtronic.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Usha Nayak <ushanay@gmail.com> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 19, 2021 10:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> users@httpd.apache.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [users@httpd] timeout and keepalive parameter in \
ProxyPass<o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you for your response. However, I'm still a bit fuzzy when \
it comes to the keepalive and timeout attribute.<br> <br>
I understand keepalive=On attribute by itself but in combination with timeout is \
where I'm unclear.<br> <br>
In the scenario that I presented with following:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"> \
timeout=3600 keepalive=On attributes<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"> \
backend server taking a long time processing the request sent by client ( note: \
no streaming any data from server yet since it's busy processing the request, let's \
say processing time on server is 4 hrs )<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"> \
OS settings are set to send TCP Keep alive packet in every 2 mins \
<o:p></o:p></li></ul> <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
My guess:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"> \
With TCP keep alive probes sent and ACK between 'Apache httpd' machine and 'Backend \
server' machine, we can be assured that there's no inactive or idle TCP \
connection.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"> \
But, from the 'Apache Httpd' application point of view, it hasn't received the data \
from the server in 1 hr(3600), and therefore 'Apache Httpd' will initiate a timeout. \
When the 'Backend Server' is ready in 4 hrs to stream the response back, there's no ' \
Apache Httpd' client to receive the response.<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Please do correct me if I'm thinking this \
incorrectly,<o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Appreciate all the help<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 10:03 AM Dino Ciuffetti <<a \
href="mailto:dino@tuxweb.it">dino@tuxweb.it</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> </div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in \
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"> <div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The global \
"Timeout" parameter is needed to set the length of time Apache httpd will \
wait for I/O in various circumstances.<br> <a \
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/mod/core.html*timeo \
ut__;Iw!!NFcUtLLUcw!DmkJVqMAt4NaSGwLZq93nIthjgNb1gK5MwyqdCke2kFmEvHGUM062jIb-qTQ7np89F8i_g$" \
target="_blank">https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/mod/core.html#timeout</a><br> <br>
<br>
The "keepalive" attribute of ProxyPass can be used to fool your network \
equipments (like intermediate firewalls) to mantain the tcp connection between apache \
and its backends open even when no data is passing from and to the wires. Some \
network equipment like firewalls tend to drop inactive (silent) connections too \
early (from my experience ~30 min but your mileage may vary).<br> <br>
The "timeout" attribute of ProxyPass is the number of seconds Apache httpd \
waits for data sent by / to the backend. So in your case apache will close a inactive \
connection with the backend in 1hr, but while your backend continue to stream data \
the connection will be kept open. Yes, it's a sort of application timeout.<br>
<br>
There is also the "connectiontimeout" attribute of ProxyPass that will \
consider a new TCP connection with the backend not valid if it takes the specified \
time to complete (TCP SYN + SYN/ACK + ACK) so it can be retried earlier.<br> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
13 ottobre 2021 16:22, "Usha Nayak" <<a \
href="mailto:ushanay@gmail.com?to=%22Usha%20Nayak%22%20%3Cushanay@gmail.com%3E" \
target="_blank">ushanay@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <blockquote \
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Hello<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Need help in \
understanding the highlighted parameters:<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier \
New";color:#112288">ProxyPass</span></b><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black"> \
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier \
New";color:#006600">"/example"</span><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black"> \
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier \
New";color:#006600">"<a \
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/backend.example.com__;!!NFcUtLLUcw!DmkJVqMAt4NaSGwLZq93nIthjgNb1gK5MwyqdCke2kFmEvHGUM062jIb-qTQ7npt-Xfx7Q$" \
target="_blank">http://backend.example.com</a>"</span><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black"> \
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;background:yellow">timeout=3600</span><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <span \
style="color:black;background:yellow">keepalive=On</span><o:p></o:p></span></p> \
</div> <div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">keepalive parameter \
- As I understand relates to TCP or socket keep alive probes that are sent to prevent \
idle connection.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><img border="0" \
width="1631" height="94" style="width:16.9916in;height:.9833in" id="Picture_x0020_1" \
src="cid:image001.png@01D7C4D6.CF3A0310"></span><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">My confusion is \
:<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div>
<blockquote style="margin-left:30.0pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Assuming the \
backend server takes 4 hrs to process a request and I have 'keepalive on' in Apache \
httpd with the OS setting to send tcp probes every 2 minutes. Backend server and \
Apache httpd are sending TCP keep alive packets to indicate the socket connection is \
not idle.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-left:30.0pt;margin-right:0in">
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" \
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"> \
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">In this case, \
would the 'apache httpd' close the connection in 1 hr ( timeout = 3600) because the \
'apache httpd' didn't get the http data? Is this timeout 'apache httpd' application \
timeout ?<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul> </blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Appreciate \
help.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span \
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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