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List: afrinic-rpd
Subject: Re: [rpd] Leases and Flexibility
From: Noah <noah () neo ! co ! tz>
Date: 2021-07-07 19:24:36
Message-ID: CAEqgTWZDX679ZcT6asDVuudJNrEHnoyhRKWv4NO_4BD+hPTZsQ () mail ! gmail ! com
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On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 2:24 AM Paul Hjul <hjul.paul@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Two points on this though:
> [1] The scenario of "top to bottom" providers who think of themselves in a
> telco-esque mindset is really deleterious to a competitive market and is
> not beneficial to consumers. Members of RIRs serve a function as an LIR not
> as an "operator who leases number resources from the RIR", it should be
> perfectly possible for an enterprise to contract with multiple companies
> one of which is an LIR to get the various resources that enterprise needs
> for their ICT services.
>
And LIR are generally *internet service* (connectivity, hosting etc) *providers
(*CPM section 2.3*)* with some IP infrastructure in which case, they must
be providing some sort of internet related service to the end-users like
enterprises which may seek more assignments from the LIR for their internal
ICT services indeed.
The integer should be looked upon as a means to and end.... and not an end
in themselves .... because they are useless absent an IP related service or
product which can only be delivered across an *infrastructure*.
>
> [2] Even in the telco space this sort of ITU-esque thinking is under
> revision - the mantra amongst telco CEOs is "becoming a techco".
>
> The thinking will mean that transitioning to IPv6 on the continent will
> continue to be behind global trends.
>
Albeit slowly for a myriad of reasons. Get telecoms with large eyeballs
taking IPv6. Most smart devices don't yet support inet6 and manufacturers
are still producing Android stack (widely used) which lacks support for
Inet6 for most devices save for a small number of expensive Android based
devices. A typical Mwanainchi /John Doe can not also afford an iPhone (not
widely used in this part of the world) which has some support for inet6.
>
> the implicit big lie advanced by some on this group is that operators
> aren't indirectly charging their customers for the utilization of the "
> integers".
>
Operators are in the business of providing IP related products and services
which are delivered across the network using the Integer. It's impossible
to deliver for instance Direct Internet Connectivity to a customer without
an integer on both ends of the wire just as it's impossible to provide
hosting services for customers without an integer or compute services
without networking.
The cost of IPv4 addresses allocated/assigned to resource members by
AFRINIC is so negligible to both LIR's and PI resource members even through
IPv$ brokers want to make it seem otherwise in light of exhaustion, so as
to profit from leasing space that folks cant put to proper use which
current policies in the region allows for transfers within the region.
> My argument is that such polices are unlikely to be properly framed or
> scoped and will generally backfire but its a legitimate discussion if
> people want to have it. There is also certainly discussion to be had as to
> requiring LIRs to undertake IPv6 operations which is something I am
> strongly in favour of.
>
We are walking the talk from where I sit....but it's also proving to be a
reality that, for a network or system that I do not have root access too, I
can't do much to dual stack it or DHCPv6 it by firing up inet6 and other
related configs on each network interface card that currently talks inet.
>
> However that isn't the engagement that is happening.
>
> It is also probably worth reiterating that a situation in which there is
> major allocation fragmentation to member providers who are small operators
> really only serves to produce large membership fee collections and would
> inevitably line the pockets of several insiders.
>
> I had actually forgot that Afrinic leases out address space on
> non-commercial terms under section 9 of the CPM and yes its further
> illustration of things.
>
*Section 9.0* *Temporary Resource Allocations & Assignments* covers
situations that require usage of say 1 month like Internet related
events/conferences which take 2 or 3 weeks maximum and would need some form
of connectivity from an ISP and as such, to number the events/conference
network, the organizers tend to request AFRINIC for INR. We have seen
AFRINIC support NOG's, its own AIS and other Internet related events with
such 1 month assignments and I know for a fact that it's a free service.
Cheers,
Noah
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" \
class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div \
dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 2:24 AM \
Paul Hjul <<a href="mailto:hjul.paul@gmail.com">hjul.paul@gmail.com</a>> \
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div \
dir="ltr"><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><br \
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New \
Roman";font-size:medium"></blockquote><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
40px;border:none;padding:0px"></blockquote><span \
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium">Two \
points on this though:</span><br><span \
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium">[1] \
The scenario of "top to bottom" providers who think of themselves in a \
telco-esque mindset is really deleterious to a competitive market and is not \
beneficial to consumers. Members of RIRs serve a function as an LIR not as an \
"operator who leases number resources from the RIR", it should be perfectly \
possible for an enterprise to contract with multiple companies one of which is an LIR \
to get the various resources that enterprise needs for their ICT \
services.</span></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>And LIR are generally \
<b>internet service</b> (connectivity, hosting etc) <b>providers (</b>CPM section \
2.3<b>)</b> with some IP infrastructure in which case, they must be providing some \
sort of internet related service to the end-users like enterprises which may seek \
more assignments from the LIR for their internal ICT services \
indeed.</div><div><br></div><div>The integer should be looked upon as a means to and \
end.... and not an end in themselves .... because they are useless absent an IP \
related service or product which can only be delivered across an \
<b>infrastructure</b>. </div><div><br></div><div> <br></div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><br><span \
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium">[2] \
Even in the telco space this sort of ITU-esque thinking is under revision - the \
mantra amongst telco CEOs is "becoming a techco". </span><br><font \
color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><br></font><span \
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium">The \
thinking will mean that transitioning to IPv6 on the continent will continue to be \
behind global trends.</span></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Albeit slowly for \
a myriad of reasons. Get telecoms with large eyeballs taking IPv6. Most smart \
devices don't yet support inet6 and manufacturers are still producing Android \
stack (widely used) which lacks support for Inet6 for most devices save for a small \
number of expensive Android based devices. A typical Mwanainchi /John Doe can not \
also afford an iPhone (not widely used in this part of the world) which has some \
support for inet6.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><br><span \
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium"> \
the implicit big lie advanced by some on this group is that operators aren't \
indirectly charging their customers for the utilization of the \
"</span>integers"<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New \
Roman";font-size:medium">. \
</span></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Operators are in the business of \
providing IP related products and services which are delivered across the network \
using the Integer. It's impossible to deliver for instance Direct Internet \
Connectivity to a customer without an integer on both ends of the wire just as \
it's impossible to provide hosting services for customers without an integer or \
compute services without networking. </div><div><br></div><div>The cost of IPv4 \
addresses allocated/assigned to resource members by AFRINIC is so negligible to both \
LIR's and PI resource members even through IPv$ brokers want to make it seem \
otherwise in light of exhaustion, so as to profit from leasing space that folks cant \
put to proper use which current policies in the region allows for transfers within \
the region. </div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span \
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium">My \
argument is that such </span>polices<span \
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium"> \
are unlikely to be properly framed or scoped and will generally backfire but \
</span>its<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New \
Roman";font-size:medium"> a legitimate discussion if people want to have it. \
There is also certainly discussion to be had as to requiring LIRs to undertake IPv6 \
operations which is something I am strongly in favour \
of.</span></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>We are walking the talk from where I \
sit....but it's also proving to be a reality that, for a network or system that I \
do not have root access too, I can't do much to dual stack it or DHCPv6 it by \
firing up inet6 and other related configs on each network interface card that \
currently talks inet.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><br><span \
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New \
Roman";font-size:medium">However that isn't the engagement that is \
happening.</span><br><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman" \
size="3"><br></font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New \
Roman";font-size:medium">It is also probably worth reiterating that a situation \
in which there is major allocation fragmentation to member providers who are small \
operators really only serves to produce large membership fee collections and would \
inevitably line the pockets of several insiders.</span><br><font color="#000000" \
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><br></font><span \
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium">I \
had actually </span>forgot<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New \
Roman";font-size:medium"> that Afrinic leases out address space on \
non-commercial terms under section 9 of the CPM and yes its further illustration of \
things.</span></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><b><i>Section 9.0</i></b> \
<b><i>Temporary Resource Allocations & Assignments</i></b> covers situations that \
require usage of say 1 month like Internet related events/conferences which take 2 or \
3 weeks maximum and would need some form of connectivity from an ISP and as such, to \
number the events/conference network, the organizers tend to request AFRINIC for INR. \
We have seen AFRINIC support NOG's, its own AIS and other Internet related events \
with such 1 month assignments and I know for a fact that it's a free service. \
</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Noah</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div>
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