'Re: [rpd] WE NEED YOUR INPUT, MAXIMUM BY TUESDAY 16TH NOON: Decision of way forward for new'

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List:       afrinic-rpd
Subject:    Re: [rpd] WE NEED YOUR INPUT, MAXIMUM BY TUESDAY 16TH NOON: Decision of way forward for new
From:       JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd () afrinic ! net>
Date:       2021-02-16 23:01:56
Message-ID: F5C6DE6D-D4AF-401F-AEEF-8C3A89F703E7 () consulintel ! es
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Hi Paschal,

I realized there was a typo in your name in the document, so corrected if for the \
last version; sorry about that!

I need to learn what means "Thematic and Hermeneutic" … but seems a very logic \
thing, as without knowing it, I "used it".

I think the lesson here is that:
We can reach consensus (or not) only if we analyze the objections of any proposal in \
a neutral and objective way. This can't be done in a PPM. It is a work that requires \
time, it requires the chairs to come back to the participants, community and authors \
to ensure if the objections are refutable or not. Objections don't need to be \
classified as minor or major or whatever. They are just valid or invalid. If they are \
valid and can't be refuted but is a good trade-off for the overall community, \
sometimes the objectors can still concede and allow the proposal to move forward.  

This is why I think the current PDP needs to be updated (and I wrote a policy \
proposal about that) and one of the key points is that it is not correct that the \
decision of the chairs needs to be taken in the PPM, but a few days afterwards, so to \
be able to open a dialogue in open issues and then resolve the question about the \
consensus. It also requires a lot of work to follow the discussion and elaborate a \
continuous "follow-up" of the discussion (for every proposal).

Note that I didn't elaborated the document at the end, instead I was writing it every \
few hours with the inputs received, and drafting some conclusions, which may change \
along the discussion progress. If we had more time for the discussion, then I would \
have asked for clarifications, and this is what I expect from chairs, to follow the \
discussion and ask the confronted opinions for as many clarifications are needed \
during all the discussion, unless those clarifications already happen by the \
discussion itself. Same as asking experts and/or staff when you don't know about a \
topic.

I hope this could be a useful example in the future for the progress of the PDWG.

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

El 16/2/21 13:15, "Paschal Ochang" <pascosoft@gmail.com> escribió:

+1 Jordi for this concise methodological approach. If I can remember very well I was \
one of the early advocates of halting decisions due to the lack of personnel (co \
chairs) to moderate PDP discussions. I do support the points where there seems to be \
a converging consensus. I can see your Thematic and Hermeneutic approach which I \
applaud.

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 11:20 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <rpd@afrinic.net> \
wrote:

Hi all,

As I've indicated a few days ago, I've elaborated a summary of the discussion on the \
list, happened until noon CET today.

Find it attached.

I'm convinced that some may disagree. I disagree myself with the choice that the \
consensus shows, however, until the board takes a decision, in order keep my \
neutrality, I will not explain why, because even if I disagree, I can concede which \
that choice, and this is what consensus means.

If anyone believes that I've misinterpreted his/her view (note that the summary is \
not a literal transcription), please say so, clearly stating your position and \
justifying the objections. I will consider updating the document with any inputs \
received until midnight CET before sending it to the board (and copy the list).

Please, keep it simple, we just want to understand if there are valid objections to \
option 1, which seems to be the one that reached consensus:

"Halt everything regarding PDP decisions, until the board can organize on-line \
elections in a few weeks (with the previous electoral census)."

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet

**********************************************
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Are you ready for the new Internet ?
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The IPv6 Company

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**********************************************
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet ?
http://www.theipv6company.com
The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. \
The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named \
above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use \
of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is \
strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the \
intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the \
contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is \
strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the \
original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

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style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span \
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi \
Paschal,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US \
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p \
class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US \
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I realized there was a typo in \
your name in the document, so corrected if for the last version; sorry about \
that!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US \
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p \
class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US \
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I need to learn what means \
"Thematic and Hermeneutic" … but seems a very logic thing, as without knowing it, I \
"used it".<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US \
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p \
class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US \
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I think the lesson here is \
that:<o:p></o:p></span></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=1><li \
class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><span \
lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>We can reach consensus \
(or not) only if we analyze the objections of any proposal in a neutral and objective \
way.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph \
style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><span lang=EN-US \
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>This can't be done in a PPM. It \
is a work that requires time, it requires the chairs to come back to the \
participants, community and authors to ensure if the objections are refutable or \
not.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph \
style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><span lang=EN-US \
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Objections don't need to be \
classified as minor or major or whatever. They are just valid or invalid. If they are \
valid and can't be refuted but is a good trade-off for the overall community, \
sometimes the objectors can still concede and allow the proposal to move \
forward.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US \
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p \
class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US \
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>This is why I think the current \
PDP needs to be updated (and I wrote a policy proposal about that) and one of the key \
points is that it is not correct that the decision of the chairs needs to be taken in \
the PPM, but a few days afterwards, so to be able to open a dialogue in open issues \
and then resolve the question about the consensus. It also requires a lot of work to \
follow the discussion and elaborate a continuous "follow-up" of the discussion (for \
every proposal).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US \
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p \
class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US \
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Note that I didn't elaborated the \
document at the end, instead I was writing it every few hours with the inputs \
received, and drafting some conclusions, which may change along the discussion \
progress. If we had more time for the discussion, then I would have asked for \
clarifications, and this is what I expect from chairs, to follow the discussion and \
ask the confronted opinions for as many clarifications are needed during all the \
discussion, unless those clarifications already happen by the discussion itself. Same \
as asking experts and/or staff when you don't know about a \
topic.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US \
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p \
class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US \
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I hope this could be a useful \
example in the future for the progress of the PDWG.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p \
class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US \
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p \
class=MsoNormal><span \
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal \
style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span \
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p \
class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span \
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p \
class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span \
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p \
class=MsoNormal><span \
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p \
class=MsoNormal><span \
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><p \
class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 16/2/21 13:15, &quot;Paschal \
Ochang&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:pascosoft@gmail.com">pascosoft@gmail.com</a>&gt; \
escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal \
style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal \
style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US>+1 Jordi for this concise methodological \
approach. If I can remember very well I was one of the early advocates of halting \
decisions due to the lack of personnel (co chairs) to moderate PDP discussions. I do \
support the points where there seems to be a converging consensus. I can see your \
Thematic and Hermeneutic approach which I applaud.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p \
class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span \
lang=EN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal \
style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US>On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 11:20 AM JORDI \
PALET MARTINEZ via RPD &lt;</span><a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"><span \
lang=EN-US>rpd@afrinic.net</span></a><span lang=EN-US>&gt; \
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid \
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm \
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p \
class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US>Hi all,<br><br>As I've \
indicated a few days ago, I've elaborated a summary of the discussion on the list, \
happened until noon CET today.<br><br>Find it attached.<br><br>I'm convinced that \
some may disagree. I disagree myself with the choice that the consensus shows, \
however, until the board takes a decision, in order keep my neutrality, I will not \
explain why, because even if I disagree, I can concede which that choice, and this is \
what consensus means.<br><br>If anyone believes that I've misinterpreted his/her view \
(note that the summary is not a literal transcription), please say so, clearly \
stating your position and justifying the objections. I will consider updating the \
document with any inputs received until midnight CET before sending it to the board \
(and copy the list).<br><br>Please, keep it simple, we just want to understand if \
there are valid objections to option 1, which seems to be the one that reached \
consensus:<br><br>&quot;Halt everything regarding PDP decisions, until the board can \
organize on-line elections in a few weeks (with the previous electoral \
census).&quot;<br><br>Regards,<br>Jordi<br>@jordipalet<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>**********************************************<br>IPv4 \
is over<br>Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br></span><a \
href="http://www.theipv6company.com" target="_blank"><span \
lang=EN-US>http://www.theipv6company.com</span></a><span lang=EN-US><br>The IPv6 \
Company<br><br>This electronic message contains information which may be privileged \
or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the \
individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, \
distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including \
attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If \
you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, \
distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including \
attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you \
must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete \
it.<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing \
list<br></span><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"><span \
lang=EN-US>RPD@afrinic.net</span></a><span lang=EN-US><br></span><a \
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank"><span \
lang=EN-US>https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</span></a><span \
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div></div><br>**********************************************<br>
 IPv4 is over<br>
Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
http://www.theipv6company.com<br>
The IPv6 Company<br>
<br>
This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. \
The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named \
above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use \
of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is \
strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the \
intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the \
contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is \
strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the \
original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<br> <br>
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