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List: afrinic-rpd
Subject: Re: [rpd] PDWG situation without co-chairs
From: Owen DeLong <owen () delong ! com>
Date: 2021-02-16 9:48:43
Message-ID: EB729FC3-6375-4EAE-8783-D497FA2048FD () delong ! com
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> On Feb 15, 2021, at 00:10 , Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> This is a Regional Internet Registry and while the Policy development is open to \
> anyone to participate, appointment of cochairs is restricted to the "AFRINIC \
> community" by the PDP.
> The bylaws defines the Internet community as follow:
>
> ####
> Internet community:
> Any person or corporate body living or operating in AFRINIC service region and \
> interested in the Internet Number resource Management. ####
>
> Either the community accepts that the WG appoints through its consensus process or \
> Voting is conducted by eligible voters.
There is no process for appointment through consensus in the current CPM, so I'm not \
sure how you can continue to assert that.
As to eligible voters, are you claiming that there are list members that are not \
eligible to vote?
> The use of rpd list as voter register is against current rules and attempt to \
> differentiate participants on the list is not desirable for the sake of the \
> openness.
I'm not sure I understand your meaning here.
The RPD list is an accumulation of those interested in Internet Number resource \
Management. Are you claiming that there are list members who are not affiliated with \
entities operating in the AFRINIC service region?
> A vote of the membership seems to be a better compromise. The contacts of the \
> membership is a very good representation of the community as defined as above.
A vote of the "membership" isn't a compromise, it's every bit as much against the \
rules as any other proposal you've put forward.
No, the contacts of the membership are NOT a good representation, they are a very \
selective subset of the community as defined above and therefore cannot and should \
not be used for this purpose as it would disenfranchise a large number of eligible \
voters.
Owen
>
> Regards
>
> --
> Arnaud
>
> Le mar. 9 févr. 2021 à 12:13, Mark Elkins <mje@posix.co.za \
> <mailto:mje@posix.co.za>> a écrit : Regarding the recall of the Co-Chairs - a line \
> was drawn in the sand. The Co-Chairs were found wanting and have been recalled. You \
> can't go back and move that line - so the recall must stand.
> Regarding mailing list registrations - I really have issues when people by the \
> names of PorkyProtection <PorkyProtection@protonmail.com> \
> <mailto:PorkyProtection@protonmail.com> and sock-puppet-420 \
> <sock-puppet-420@protonmail.com> <mailto:sock-puppet-420@protonmail.com> are able \
> to subscribe and write to the lists - especially if they are able to also \
> potentially vote. I understand that some people may require more than one email \
> address (Private & Company) but the two above examples show some have taken this \
> liberty too far. I personally think people should only be added after some form of \
> validation is performed. People should only be allowed to vote from one email \
> address (any that they have "validated") and only after 12 months of existence \
> according to their validation (so they can still change email addresses and remain \
> valid).
> On 2/9/21 11:47 AM, Dewole Ajao via RPD wrote:
> > The proposed election process may have been workable if we did not already have \
> > contention over an unusual/unexplained surge in mailing list registrations a \
> > couple of moons ago. Setting a cut off date before that surge then cuts off some \
> > real humans that joined the mailing list after the surge. What to do?
> > Dewole.
> >
> > On 2/9/2021 10:13 AM, Owen DeLong wrote:
> > > The co-chair model is by far the more common model among all the RIRs.
> > >
> > > However, there is one exception and I will say that in its region, it has \
> > > served the community rather well throughout the history of that RIR.
> > > It's also the region where I have the greatest familiarity, now being in my \
> > > 14th year of service in that body.
> > > In our region, we have 15 members and they come from diverse segments of the \
> > > community (cloud providers, large ISPs, small ISPs, individuals, and more).
> > > Being that I have been involved for so long in that process at such a deep \
> > > level, my view may be somewhat biased, but if the PDWG wishes to pursue a \
> > > transition towards an Advisory Council structure instead of just 2 co-chairs, \
> > > I'm happy to contribute my knowledge and experience to that process.
> > > However, this should not be the immediate fix to the current situation.
> > >
> > > The current situation should be resolved in the most efficient possible way to \
> > > achieve a fair and open election from the existing participants in the \
> > > community.
> > > Lacking co-chairs to lead the process, I think it should probably fall to the \
> > > election committee to manage the election process. I propose that:
> > > 1. EC set a date (in the past) at which time you must have been a member of \
> > > the RPD list in order to vote. This should prevent any room stacking and allay \
> > > any fears of room-stacking.
> > > 2. EC sets a date (~10-14 days out) when nominations open. Anyone eligible \
> > > person wishing to serve may self-nominate or be nominated by another. EC \
> > > should collect and validate all such nominations. All validated nominees \
> > > should be placed on a slate. Nominations should run for 1 week from the \
> > > opening date.
> > > 3. Each candidate should be able to submit a video and written statement to be \
> > > posted on the AfriNIC web site at the same time as the slate is announced.
> > >
> > > 4. Two weeks after announcement of the slate, voting should commence and run \
> > > for 1 week. Each member should make a ranked-choice vote of 1 or more \
> > > candidates to hold the office.
> > > If you aren't familiar with ranked-choice voting, \
> > > https://ballotpedia.org/Ranked-choice_voting_(RCV) \
> > > <https://ballotpedia.org/Ranked-choice_voting_(RCV)> provides good detail.
> > >
> > > Essentially, the votes are counted in consecutive rounds, starting with \
> > > everyone's first choice. The candidate receiving the lowest percentage vote in \
> > > each round is eliminated and their votes are transferred to the next choice of \
> > > each voter who had contributed to their total votes.
> > > In this case, since we are electing two co-chairs, once the first candidate \
> > > reaches a ≥50% majority in the ranked-choices, they should be selected to \
> > > serve out the longer term and the next-highest ranked candidate should be \
> > > selected to serve out the shorter term.
> > > Even this process will take time, but I think we should have a deliberate \
> > > process and a proper election for the fairness of all.
> > >
> > > Owen
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Feb 9, 2021, at 00:16 , Dewole Ajao via RPD <rpd@afrinic.net \
> > > > <mailto:rpd@afrinic.net>> wrote:
> > > > Actually there is no king in the PDP, fortunately or unfortunately. Hopefully \
> > > > though, the market will be coordinated as best possible using the untested \
> > > > rules we have to work with in this case.
> > > > My take:
> > > >
> > > > PDP (section 3.5) says a co-chair may be recalled (with request and \
> > > > justification sent to the board of directors); Logically, the recall process \
> > > > ends in either recall of the co-chair or continuation of his/her term. That's \
> > > > all that the conflict resolution section states and as such we will have to \
> > > > go to another part of the PDP that makes mention of a truncated co-chair \
> > > > term.
> > > > The applicable section (i.e. 3.3) says the Working Group may select a \
> > > > replacement to serve the remainder of the term. Given the current polarized \
> > > > state of this working group, perhaps Afrinic staff under the guidance of the \
> > > > CEO and some advisory from the Board (being the representatives of resource \
> > > > members) could convene an online meeting in which the working group properly \
> > > > analyzes the situation and chooses a path forward?
> > > > Considering our current fear of room stacking ahead of either face to face \
> > > > and online polls, it would be interesting to see how we resolve this one. Is \
> > > > this the birth of a PDWG led by a small group rather than 2 individuals? A \
> > > > group given a mandate to somehow tidy up many of the flaws in the current \
> > > > PDP?
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Dewole who quickly runs off to get a flame retardant suit :-P
> > > >
> > > > On 2/9/2021 7:17 AM, Daniel Yakmut via RPD wrote:
> > > > > I don't agree Fernando, a committee does not usually have that \
> > > > > 'absoluteness' you mentioned. I can also understand the remarks \
> > > > > 'Findings/Outcome of the Recall Committee' to mean that there is a hanging \
> > > > > process.
> > > > > Please, the committee's outcome remains that the Co-Chairs should be \
> > > > > recalled. There must be a pronouncement from the board that constituted the \
> > > > > Recall committee. This is not a market square so we cannot take the 'shout \
> > > > > of a mad man in the market to mean the proclamation of the king'. The king \
> > > > > must speak through the authorised channel, before the people can accept.
> > > > > Therefore, we wait!
> > > > >
> > > > > Simply
> > > > >
> > > > > Daniel
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 09/02/2021 3:18 am, Badru Ntege wrote:
> > > > > > I believe this is the correct understanding of the outcome.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We now need to move forward with the selection of new co-chairs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The community is committed to accept the outcome of the committee.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lets move on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: Fernando Frediani <fhfrediani@gmail.com> \
> > > > > > <mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com>
> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, 9 February 2021 at 01:45
> > > > > > To: "rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy" <rpd@afrinic.net> \
> > > > > > <mailto:rpd@afrinic.net>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [rpd] PDWG situation without co-chairs
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No Daniel, the output of the Recall Committee regarding the Co-Chairs is \
> > > > > > already final (read point 19 from their report) according to whats the \
> > > > > > CPM says about it, so it does not have to be approved by anyone, not even \
> > > > > > the Board itself.
> > > > > > So currently we don't have any Co-Chairs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What the Committee has mentioned in the document is for the Board to lead \
> > > > > > the election of the new Co-Chairs and determine the transition during \
> > > > > > this interim.
> > > > > > That's it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Fernando
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, 8 Feb 2021, 19:29 Daniel Yakmut via RPD, <rpd@afrinic.net \
> > > > > > <mailto:rpd@afrinic.net>> wrote: Here we are indeed in a strange \
> > > > > > situation, which we created for ourselves. A situation we were drumming \
> > > > > > for. I thought we all had it figured out and that is why we called for \
> > > > > > recall of the Co-chairs.
> > > > > > I am baffled that Jordi is already making a suggestion on how to proceed
> > > > > > to get new Co-Chairs. When the recommendations of the Recall Committee
> > > > > > has not being assented to. Though, I don't know who is to approve the
> > > > > > recommendations of the committee.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hence, the response of Jordi is not tenable here, since I have not seen
> > > > > > any declaration that, we don't have co-chairs. I am aware that the Alan
> > > > > > Barret led committee made recommendations, which requires acceptance,
> > > > > > approval and implementation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am rather seeing a strange situation in the haste that is being
> > > > > > suggested on how to deal with the 'situation of no Co-chairs'.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am currently studying the documents provided by the Recall Committee,
> > > > > > to enable one make an appropriate comment. But, at this early stages the
> > > > > > outcome of the committees report remains just recommendations.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Simply,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Daniel
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 08/02/2021 9:52 pm, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We are in a very strange situation now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We have no co-chairs, we have no meetings (because the Covid) so \
> > > > > > > elections could take place.
> > > > > > > The Recall Committee suggested that the section 3.3 of the CPM shall \
> > > > > > > take effect (if the working group chair is unable to serve his or her \
> > > > > > > full term the WG may select a replacement to serve the remainder of the \
> > > > > > > term).
> > > > > > > The Recall Committee report already suggested that the PDWG should work \
> > > > > > > on this and coordinate with the board.
> > > > > > > Guys, this is our "problem" as a community. Remember that the board is \
> > > > > > > only helping the community here organizing the elections.
> > > > > > > Is not the board who choose the candidates and elects them it is our \
> > > > > > > tasks. Remember that without co-chairs, we can't advance with our work. \
> > > > > > > Who takes care of ensuring a profitable discussion in the list for any \
> > > > > > > policy proposal (and we have many in the table), or even ensuring that \
> > > > > > > there is not any abuse or bad behavior during this period?
> > > > > > > I will like to propose a few ideas and I hope that others also do the \
> > > > > > > same. Remember that this is transition period:
> > > > > > > 1) Ask the board to choose among previous co-chairs that already have \
> > > > > > > proven experience (and hopefully they accept). 2) Nominate ourselves \
> > > > > > > those previous co-chairs. 3) A combination of both 1 and 2 above \
> > > > > > > (example, board nominates one, the community another). 4) Instead of \
> > > > > > > looking for a temporary replacement, asking the board to organize \
> > > > > > > elections in a maximum of 4-6 weeks, using the same procedure that was \
> > > > > > > prepared for the last time and using the same electoral census.
> > > > > > > If we want to board to hear us and take a decision, we should try to \
> > > > > > > reach consensus *among us* without co-chairs. I know it seems \
> > > > > > > difficult, but I'm convinced that at difficult times, this community \
> > > > > > > will be able to work together.
> > > > > > > Eddy, I will love to hear also what you have to say, or if the board \
> > > > > > > already has worked out something, etc.
> > > > > > > Thanks in advance!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > Jordi
> > > > > > > @jordipalet
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > **********************************************
> > > > > > > IPv4 is over
> > > > > > > Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> > > > > > > http://www.theipv6company.com <http://www.theipv6company.com/>
> > > > > > > The IPv6 Company
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or \
> > > > > > > confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use \
> > > > > > > of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized \
> > > > > > > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this \
> > > > > > > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly \
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> > > > > > > to inform about this communication and delete it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > RPD mailing list
> > > > > > > RPD@afrinic.net <mailto:RPD@afrinic.net>
> > > > > > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd \
> > > > > > > <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > RPD mailing list
> > > > > > RPD@afrinic.net <mailto:RPD@afrinic.net>
> > > > > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd \
> > > > > > <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > RPD mailing list
> > > > > > RPD@afrinic.net <mailto:RPD@afrinic.net>
> > > > > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd \
> > > > > > <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > RPD mailing list
> > > > > RPD@afrinic.net <mailto:RPD@afrinic.net>
> > > > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd \
> > > > > <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>
> > > > --
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Dewole.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > RPD mailing list
> > > > RPD@afrinic.net <mailto:RPD@afrinic.net>
> > > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd \
> > > > <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>
> > --
> > Regards,
> >
> > Dewole.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > RPD mailing list
> > RPD@afrinic.net <mailto:RPD@afrinic.net>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd \
> > <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd>
> --
> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> mje@posix.co.za <mailto:mje@posix.co.za> Tel: +27.826010496 \
> <tel:+27826010496> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: \
> https://ftth.posix.co.za <https://ftth.posix.co.za/>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RPD mailing list
> RPD@afrinic.net <mailto:RPD@afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd \
> <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd> \
> <abessive_logo.jpg><abessive_logo.jpg><QR-MJElkins.png>_______________________________________________
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[Attachment #5 (unknown)]
<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; \
charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; \
line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote \
type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 15, 2021, at 00:10 , Arnaud AMELINA <<a \
href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com" class="">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br \
class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div \
dir="auto" class="">Hi all, </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br \
class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">This is a Regional Internet Registry and \
while the Policy development is open to anyone to participate, appointment of \
cochairs is restricted to the "AFRINIC community" by the PDP. </div><div \
dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">The bylaws defines \
the Internet community as follow:</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br \
class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">####</div><div dir="auto" class="">Internet \
community: </div><div dir="auto" class="">Any person or corporate body living or \
operating in AFRINIC service region and interested in the Internet Number resource \
Management.</div><div dir="auto" class="">####</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br \
class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Either the community accepts that the WG \
appoints through its consensus process or Voting is conducted by eligible \
voters.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>There is no process for \
appointment through consensus in the current CPM, so I'm not sure how you can \
continue to assert that.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>As to eligible voters, are \
you claiming that there are list members that are not eligible to vote?</div><div><br \
class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div \
dir="auto" class="">The use of rpd list as voter register is against current \
rules and attempt to differentiate participants on the list is not desirable for the \
sake of the openness.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>I'm not \
sure I understand your meaning here.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>The RPD list \
is an accumulation of those interested in Internet Number resource \
Management.</div><div>Are you claiming that there are list members who are not \
affiliated with entities operating in the AFRINIC service region?</div><div><br \
class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div \
dir="auto" class="">A vote of the membership seems to be a better compromise. \
The contacts of the membership is a very good representation of the community \
as defined as above.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>A vote of \
the "membership" isn't a compromise, it's every bit as much against the rules as any \
other proposal you've put forward.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>No, the contacts \
of the membership are NOT a good representation, they are a very selective subset of \
the community as defined above and therefore cannot</div><div>and should not be used \
for this purpose as it would disenfranchise a large number of eligible \
voters.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""><blockquote \
type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" \
class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Regards </div><div \
dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">--</div><div \
dir="auto" class="">Arnaud </div></div><br class=""><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mar. 9 févr. 2021 à 12:13, \
Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>> a \
écrit :<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 \
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=""><p class="">Regarding the recall of the Co-Chairs - a line was drawn \
in the sand. The Co-Chairs were found wanting and have been recalled. You
can't go back and move that line - so the recall must stand.</p><p \
class="">Regarding mailing list registrations - I really have issues when people by \
the names of PorkyProtection <a href="mailto:PorkyProtection@protonmail.com" \
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" \
class=""><PorkyProtection@protonmail.com></a>
and sock-puppet-420 <a href="mailto:sock-puppet-420@protonmail.com" \
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class=""><sock-puppet-420@protonmail.com></a> \
are able to subscribe and write to the lists - especially if they are able to also \
potentially vote. I understand that some people may require more than one email \
address (Private & Company) but the two above examples show some have taken this \
liberty too far. I personally think people should only be added after some
form of validation is performed. People should only be allowed to
vote from one email address (any that they have "validated") and
only after 12 months of existence according to their validation
(so they can still change email addresses and remain valid).<br class="">
</p>
<div class="">On 2/9/21 11:47 AM, Dewole Ajao via RPD
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><p class="">The proposed election process may \
have been workable if we did not already have contention over an unusual/unexplained \
surge in mailing list registrations a couple of moons ago. Setting a cut
off date before that surge then cuts off some real humans that
joined the mailing list after the surge. What to do?</p><p \
class="">Dewole.<br class=""> </p>
<div class="">On 2/9/2021 10:13 AM, Owen DeLong
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
The co-chair model is by far the more common model among all the
RIRs.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">However, there is one exception and I will say
that in its region, it has served the community rather well
throughout the history of that RIR.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">It's also the region where I have the greatest
familiarity, now being in my 14th year of service in that
body.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">In our region, we have 15 members and they come
from diverse segments of the community (cloud providers, large
ISPs, small ISPs, individuals, and more).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Being that I have been involved for so long in
that process at such a deep level, my view may be somewhat
biased, but if the PDWG wishes to pursue a transition towards
an Advisory Council structure instead of just 2 co-chairs, I'm
happy to contribute my knowledge and experience to that
process.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">However, this should not be the immediate fix to
the current situation.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The current situation should be resolved in the
most efficient possible way to achieve a fair and open
election from the existing participants in the community.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Lacking co-chairs to lead the process, I think it
should probably fall to the election committee to manage the
election process. I propose that:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>1.<span \
style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>EC set a date (in the past) at which \
time you must have been a member of the RPD</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>list
in order to vote. This should prevent any room stacking and
allay any fears of room-stacking.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>2.<span \
style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>EC sets a date (~10-14 days out) when \
nominations open. Anyone eligible person wishing to serve may</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" \
class=""> </span>self-nominate or be nominated by another. EC should collect and \
validate all such</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" \
class=""> </span>nominations. All validated nominees should be placed on a slate.
Nominations should</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>run
for 1 week from the opening date.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>3.<span \
style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>Each candidate should be able to \
submit a video and written statement to be posted on the</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>AfriNIC
web site at the same time as the slate is announced.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>4.<span \
style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>Two weeks after announcement of the \
slate, voting should commence and run for 1 week.</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>Each
member should make a ranked-choice vote of 1 or more
candidates to hold the office.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>If
you aren't familiar with ranked-choice voting, <a \
href="https://ballotpedia.org/Ranked-choice_voting_(RCV)" target="_blank" \
rel="noreferrer" class="">https://ballotpedia.org/Ranked-choice_voting_(RCV)</a></div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>provides
good detail.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" \
class=""> </span>Essentially, the votes are counted in consecutive rounds, starting \
with everyone's first choice.</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>The
candidate receiving the lowest percentage vote in each round
is eliminated and their votes</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>are
transferred to the next choice of each voter who had
contributed to their total votes.</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span></div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>In
this case, since we are electing two co-chairs, once the first
candidate reaches a ≥50%</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>majority
in the ranked-choices, they should be selected to serve out
the longer term and</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>the
next-highest ranked candidate should be selected to serve out
the shorter term.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Even this process will take time, but I think we
should have a deliberate process and a proper election</div>
<div class="">for the fairness of all.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Owen</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Feb 9, 2021, at 00:16 , Dewole Ajao via
RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" \
rel="noreferrer" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:</div> <br class="">
<div class=""><p \
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal \
;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" \
class="">Actually there is no king in the PDP, fortunately or unfortunately.
Hopefully though, the market will be coordinated as
best possible using the untested rules we have to work
with in this case.<span class=""> </span><br class="">
</p><p \
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal \
;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" \
class="">My take:</p><p \
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal \
;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" \
class="">PDP (section 3.5) says a co-chair may be recalled (with request and
justification sent to the board of directors);
Logically, the recall process ends in either recall of
the co-chair or continuation of his/her term. That's
all that the conflict resolution section states and as
such we will have to go to another part of the PDP
that makes mention of a truncated co-chair term.<span \
class=""> </span><br class=""> </p><p \
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal \
;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" \
class="">The applicable section (i.e. 3.3) says the Working Group may select a
replacement to serve the remainder of the term. Given
the current polarized state of this working group,
perhaps Afrinic staff under the guidance of the CEO
and some advisory from the Board (being the
representatives of resource members) could convene an
online meeting in which the working group properly
analyzes the situation and chooses a path forward?<span \
class=""> </span><br class=""> </p><p \
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal \
;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" \
class="">Considering our current fear of room stacking ahead of either face to
face and online polls, it would be interesting to see
how we resolve this one. Is this the birth of a PDWG
led by a small group rather than 2 individuals? A
group given a mandate to somehow tidy up many of the
flaws in the current PDP?<span class=""> </span><br class="">
</p><p \
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal \
;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" \
class="">Regards,</p><p \
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal \
;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" \
class="">Dewole who
quickly runs off to get a flame retardant suit :-P<br class="">
</p>
<div \
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal \
;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" \
class="">On 2/9/2021 7:17 AM, Daniel Yakmut via RPD wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" \
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal \
;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" \
class=""><p class="">I don't agree Fernando, a committee does not usually have that \
'absoluteness' you mentioned. I can also understand the remarks 'Findings/Outcome
of the Recall Committee' to mean that there is a
hanging process.</p><p class="">Please, the committee's outcome \
remains that the Co-Chairs should be recalled. There must be
a pronouncement from the board that constituted the
Recall committee. This is not a market square so we
cannot take the 'shout of a mad man in the market to
mean the proclamation of the king'. The king must
speak through the authorised channel, before the
people can accept.</p><p class="">Therefore, we wait!</p><p \
class="">Simply</p><p class="">Daniel<br class=""> </p><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<div class="">On 09/02/2021 3:18 am,
Badru Ntege wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span \
lang="EN-US" class="">I believe this is the
correct understanding of the outcome. <span \
class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div> <div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span \
lang="EN-US" class=""><u class=""></u> <u \
class=""></u></span></div>
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span \
lang="EN-US" class="">We now need to move
forward with the selection of new co-chairs.<u \
class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div> <div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span \
lang="EN-US" class=""><u class=""></u> <u \
class=""></u></span></div>
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span \
lang="EN-US" class="">The community is committed to accept the outcome of the
committee.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div>
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span \
lang="EN-US" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div> <div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span \
lang="EN-US" class="">Lets move on.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div> \
<div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span \
lang="EN-US" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div> <div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span \
lang="EN-US" class="">Regards. <u class=""></u><u \
class=""></u></span></div> <div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span \
class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div> <div class="">
<div class="">
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span \
class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div> </div>
</div>
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span \
class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
<div style="border-style:solid none \
none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm" \
class=""> <div style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" \
class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size:12pt" class="">From:<span \
class=""> </span></span></b><span style="font-size:12pt" class="">Fernando \
Frediani<span class=""> </span><a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" \
style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" \
class=""><fhfrediani@gmail.com></a><br class="">
<b class="">Date:<span class=""> </span></b>Tuesday,
9 February 2021 at 01:45<br class="">
<b class="">To:<span class=""> </span></b>"rpd
>> AfriNIC Resource Policy"<span \
class=""> </span><a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" \
style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" \
class=""><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:<span class=""> </span></b>Re:
[rpd] PDWG situation without co-chairs<u class=""></u><u \
class=""></u></span></div> </div>
<div class="">
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u \
class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div> </div>
<div class="">
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">No Daniel, \
the output of the Recall Committee regarding the Co-Chairs is already final (read
point 19 from their report) according to whats
the CPM says about it, so it does not have to
be approved by anyone, not even the Board
itself.<span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u \
class=""></u></div> <div class="">
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u \
class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div> </div>
<div class="">
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" \
class="">So
currently we don't have any Co-Chairs.<u class=""></u><u \
class=""></u></div> <div class="">
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u \
class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div> </div>
<div class="">
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">What the \
Committee has mentioned in the document is for the Board to lead
the election of the new Co-Chairs and
determine the transition during this
interim.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u \
class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div> </div>
<div class="">
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">That's \
it.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div> </div>
<div class="">
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u \
class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div> </div>
<div class="">
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">Fernando<u \
class=""></u><u class=""></u></div> </div>
</div>
</div>
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u \
class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div> <div class="">
<div class="">
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">On Mon, 8 \
Feb 2021, 19:29 Daniel Yakmut via RPD, <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" \
style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" \
class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style:none none none \
solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm \
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class="">
<div \
style="margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">Here we \
are indeed in a strange situation, which
we created for<span class=""> </span><br class="">
ourselves. A situation we were drumming for.
I thought we all had it<span class=""> </span><br \
class="">
figured out and that is why we called for
recall of the Co-chairs.<br class="">
<br class="">
I am baffled that Jordi is already making a
suggestion on how to proceed<span \
class=""> </span><br class=""> to get new Co-Chairs. When the
recommendations of the Recall Committee<span \
class=""> </span><br class=""> has not being assented to. Though, I don't
know who is to approve the<span class=""> </span><br \
class=""> recommendations of the committee.<br class="">
<br class="">
Hence, the response of Jordi is not tenable
here, since I have not seen<span \
class=""> </span><br class=""> any declaration that, we don't have
co-chairs. I am aware that the Alan<span \
class=""> </span><br class=""> Barret led committee made recommendations,
which requires acceptance,<span class=""> </span><br \
class=""> approval and implementation.<br class="">
<br class="">
I am rather seeing a strange situation in
the haste that is being<span class=""> </span><br \
class=""> suggested on how to deal with the 'situation
of no Co-chairs'.<br class="">
<br class="">
I am currently studying the documents
provided by the Recall Committee,<span \
class=""> </span><br class=""> to enable one make an appropriate comment.
But, at this early stages the<span \
class=""> </span><br class=""> outcome of the committees report remains
just recommendations.<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Simply,<br class="">
<br class="">
Daniel<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
On 08/02/2021 9:52 pm, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
via RPD wrote:<br class="">
> Hi all,<br class="">
><br class="">
> We are in a very strange situation now.<br class="">
><br class="">
> We have no co-chairs, we have no
meetings (because the Covid) so elections
could take place.<br class="">
><br class="">
> The Recall Committee suggested that the
section 3.3 of the CPM shall take effect (if
the working group chair is unable to serve
his or her full term the WG may select a
replacement to serve the remainder of the
term).<br class="">
><br class="">
> The Recall Committee report already
suggested that the PDWG should work on this
and coordinate with the board.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Guys, this is our "problem" as a
community. Remember that the board is only
helping the community here organizing the
elections.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Is not the board who choose the
candidates and elects them it is our tasks.
Remember that without co-chairs, we can't
advance with our work. Who takes care of
ensuring a profitable discussion in the list
for any policy proposal (and we have many in
the table), or even ensuring that there is
not any abuse or bad behavior during this
period?<br class="">
><br class="">
> I will like to propose a few ideas and
I hope that others also do the same.
Remember that this is transition period:<br class="">
><br class="">
> 1) Ask the board to choose among
previous co-chairs that already have proven
experience (and hopefully they accept).<br class="">
> 2) Nominate ourselves those previous
co-chairs.<br class="">
> 3) A combination of both 1 and 2 above
(example, board nominates one, the community
another).<br class="">
> 4) Instead of looking for a temporary
replacement, asking the board to organize
elections in a maximum of 4-6 weeks, using
the same procedure that was prepared for the
last time and using the same electoral
census.<br class="">
><br class="">
> If we want to board to hear us and take
a decision, we should try to reach consensus
*among us* without co-chairs. I know it
seems difficult, but I'm convinced that at
difficult times, this community will be able
to work together.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Eddy, I will love to hear also what you
have to say, or if the board already has
worked out something, etc.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Thanks in advance!<br class="">
><span class=""> </span><br class="">
> Regards,<br class="">
> Jordi<br class="">
> @jordipalet<br class="">
> <br class="">
> <br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
>
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<br class="">
<fieldset class=""></fieldset>
<pre class="">_______________________________________________
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</blockquote>
<br class="">
<fieldset class=""></fieldset>
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</blockquote>
<pre cols="72" \
style="font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;le \
tter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" \
class="">-- Regards,
Dewole.</pre>
<span \
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal \
;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transf \
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<pre cols="72" class="">--
Regards,
Dewole.</pre>
<br class="">
<fieldset class=""></fieldset>
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<div class="">-- <br class=""><p class="">Mark James ELKINS - Posix \
Systems - (South) Africa<br class="">
<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" \
class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>
Tel: <a href="tel:+27826010496" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" \
class="">+27.826010496</a><br class=""> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: \
<a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" \
class="">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><br class=""> <br class="">
<img src="cid:part24.4F00348C.A8A1D58D@posix.co.za" alt="Posix
Systems" width="250" height="165" class=""><img \
src="cid:part25.7573157C.86660457@posix.co.za" alt="VCARD for
MJ Elkins" title="VCARD, Scan me please!" width="164" height="164" \
class=""><br class=""> </p>
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