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List: afrinic-rpd
Subject: Re: [rpd] Two more petitioners
From: Lu Heng <h.lu () anytimechinese ! com>
Date: 2017-12-22 4:42:16
Message-ID: CAAvCx3jyiexFvObnK38-e7iL09jr8U619XSkKa8KUbNkBccq9A () mail ! gmail ! com
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Hi
I just want to add, the soft landing policy both in RIPE and APNIC region
has created lots of abuse, discussion and multiple meeting discussion,
patching one loophole while creating another--people from those regions can
tell you how exhausting for the communities try to preserve those space for
un-know future comers that might not even need it in the first place.
So no, soft landing itself might not be a great idea from the start.
Although I disagree with many ARIN policies, running to 0 might be a very
wise policy.
On 22 December 2017 at 02:01, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 21, 2017, at 00:12 , Jackson Muthili <jacksonmuthi@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Andrew Alston
> > <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
> >>> So yes if you need a /11 you will instead get a /18 but it will allow
> >>> 127 more companies to get a /18. Does this sound unreasonable (during
> >>> a scarcity)?
> >>
> >> Actually – if one company is doing 20+ thousand new subscribers a month
> –
> >> and the other company is doing 500 subscribers a month
> >
> > Now you see where you self contradict.
> >
> > If your analogy were used when IANA had 5 /8s left, AfriNIC would have
> > got none of that.
>
> There are plenty of people who would argue this would have been
> appropriate.
>
> Note: I'm not one of them, but they do exist.
>
> However, I don't see this as self-contradictory. An exception was made for
> the governance of those resources in order to facilitate a predictable
> wind-
> down for each RIR.
>
> AfriNIC has a Soft Landing policy today which does that very same thing.
>
> The proposed additional restrictions in SL-BIS would reduce this
> predictability
> and waste resources by making them unavailable for deployment in real
> networks
> for many years to come. The last 5 /8 global policy, on the other hand,
> actually
> deployed the resources (arguably more rapidly than they may have been
> deployed
> without it).
>
>
> >> But – I guess for some this is all about their companies – forget the
> >> consumers that actually need to be connections today – forget the fact
> that
> >> we are meant to be trying to increase African penetration levels –
> TODAY –
> >
> > Again if your analogy were used when IANA had 5 /8s left, AfriNIC
> > would have got none of that.
>
> Yes… Because we were willing to accelerate the distribution of an
> additional
> /8 to AfriNIC ahead of its need, it got extra space that it would not have
> received otherwise.
>
> SL-BIS argues for the exact opposite. If SL-BIS had been adopted instead of
> the final 5 /8 policy, then the last /8 AfriNIC currently holds would
> probably
> still be sitting at IANA waiting for them to hand out /20s to each RIR once
> every 2 years instead of /8s.
>
> >> forget the fact that while space languishes unused
> >
> > Your comment above suggests that the industry has stopped growing.
> > Otherwise your comment of space languishing unused is absolutely
> > misguided.
>
> No, his comment suggests that SL-BIS will prevent industry growth
> due to the limitations imposed on the rate of distribution.
>
> You cannot avoid real scarcity by reducing the availability of the
> resource. All you can do is create real scarcity earlier and make
> the period of scarcity last longer.
>
> SL-BIS does exactly that.
>
> Owen
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RPD mailing list
> RPD@afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>
--
--
Kind regards.
Lu
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr">Hi<div><br></div><div>I just want to add, the soft landing policy both \
in RIPE and APNIC region has created lots of abuse, discussion and multiple meeting \
discussion, patching one loophole while creating another--people from those regions \
can tell you how exhausting for the communities try to preserve those space for \
un-know future comers that might not even need it in the first \
place.</div><div><br></div><div>So no, soft landing itself might not be a great idea \
from the start.</div><div><br></div><div>Although I disagree with many ARIN policies, \
running to 0 might be a very wise \
policy.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div \
class="gmail_quote">On 22 December 2017 at 02:01, Owen DeLong <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>></span> \
wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px \
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=""><br> > On Dec 21, 2017, at 00:12 , \
Jackson Muthili <<a \
href="mailto:jacksonmuthi@gmail.com">jacksonmuthi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> \
><br> > On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Andrew Alston<br>
> <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.<wbr>com</a>> \
wrote:<br> >>> So yes if you need a /11 you will instead get a /18 but it \
will allow<br> >>> 127 more companies to get a /18. Does this sound \
unreasonable (during<br> >>> a scarcity)?<br>
>><br>
>> Actually – if one company is doing 20+ thousand new subscribers a month \
–<br> >> and the other company is doing 500 subscribers a month<br>
><br>
> Now you see where you self contradict.<br>
><br>
> If your analogy were used when IANA had 5 /8s left, AfriNIC would have<br>
> got none of that.<br>
<br>
</span>There are plenty of people who would argue this would have been \
appropriate.<br> <br>
Note: I'm not one of them, but they do exist.<br>
<br>
However, I don't see this as self-contradictory. An exception was made for<br>
the governance of those resources in order to facilitate a predictable wind-<br>
down for each RIR.<br>
<br>
AfriNIC has a Soft Landing policy today which does that very same thing.<br>
<br>
The proposed additional restrictions in SL-BIS would reduce this predictability<br>
and waste resources by making them unavailable for deployment in real networks<br>
for many years to come. The last 5 /8 global policy, on the other hand, actually<br>
deployed the resources (arguably more rapidly than they may have been deployed<br>
without it).<br>
<span class=""><br>
<br>
>> But – I guess for some this is all about their companies – forget \
the<br> >> consumers that actually need to be connections today – forget the \
fact that<br> >> we are meant to be trying to increase African penetration \
levels – TODAY –<br> ><br>
> Again if your analogy were used when IANA had 5 /8s left, AfriNIC<br>
> would have got none of that.<br>
<br>
</span>Yes… Because we were willing to accelerate the distribution of an \
additional<br> /8 to AfriNIC ahead of its need, it got extra space that it would not \
have<br> received otherwise.<br>
<br>
SL-BIS argues for the exact opposite. If SL-BIS had been adopted instead of<br>
the final 5 /8 policy, then the last /8 AfriNIC currently holds would probably<br>
still be sitting at IANA waiting for them to hand out /20s to each RIR once<br>
every 2 years instead of /8s.<br>
<span class=""><br>
>> forget the fact that while space languishes unused<br>
><br>
> Your comment above suggests that the industry has stopped growing.<br>
> Otherwise your comment of space languishing unused is absolutely<br>
> misguided.<br>
<br>
</span>No, his comment suggests that SL-BIS will prevent industry growth<br>
due to the limitations imposed on the rate of distribution.<br>
<br>
You cannot avoid real scarcity by reducing the availability of the<br>
resource. All you can do is create real scarcity earlier and make<br>
the period of scarcity last longer.<br>
<br>
SL-BIS does exactly that.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
Owen<br>
</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br> \
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div \
class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div \
dir="ltr"><div>--<br>Kind regards.<br>Lu<br><br></div></div></div> </div>
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