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List:       activemq-dev
Subject:    Re: [PROPOSAL] ActiveMQ 5.17.0 end of this week
From:       Christopher Shannon <christopher.l.shannon () gmail ! com>
Date:       2022-03-01 23:18:29
Message-ID: CACHnxzxy6ZbjJ0v-x_xCGApm8PiqYt1W8+ah5YV-D3S7YJV-ug () mail ! gmail ! com
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Good point Matt, based on Matt's points I'm back to putting it into 2.18.0
as I agree we should probably pick back up the discussion. Due to alerting
and log parsing he makes a very good point that we should be sure of the
changes so we don't change it again and I don't want to rush it into 2.17.0
at this point. It's been on hold for a while so it doesn't hurt to
target it for 2.18.0

In regards to "approval"  (because you've brought it up several times
now)...that's just one person who approved the changes but the PMC runs the
project and not just one member.  Approval of code changes comes from the
PMC as a whole any PMC member can veto code changes if not in agreement.

On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 3:31 PM Étienne Hossack <activemq@hossack.me> wrote:

> For a brief recap, the conversation moved to confirm:
> * Artemis and ActiveMQ are distinct brokers and trying to align terms
> across them all was challenging
> * A best-effort approach would be to do as you described below
> 
> However, the PRs do simply use that high-level terminology, and leave it
> open for us to refactor in the future to having that ideal
> persistence-layer meaning be done (remember, frequent releases means we can
> finalize that approach when we're ready!)
> 
> Given the aforementioned PRs and given the clear path forward with regards
> to simply adding notes in the release notes, I re-raised the changes into
> one PR: https://github.com/apache/activemq/pull/788
> 
> FWIW, I get that consensus is hard with nomenclature, but it really
> reflects poorly on a community when there's a large amount of resistance or
> a lack of support in moving forward with work around inclusivity and the
> role of language in systems of oppression.
> 
> All this said, we can continue detailed discussions in another thread. For
> the purposes of "Intent to release 5.17.0" - I merely would like to
> highlight work that had previously targeted and been approved for this
> release.
> 
> --
> Étienne
> 
> On Tue, 1 Mar 2022, at 12:16 PM, Matt Pavlovich wrote:
> > The discussion veered and never came back to a consensus. The original
> > conversation was trying to normalize terms for role and status—
> > however, as I dug in it becomes complicated as various storage backends
> > have their own terms. The "ah-hah" moment was the idea we should just
> > have a simple "on | off", "active | standby" state indicator for the
> > broker and delegate any further meaning down to the persistence layer—
> > "replica", "failover", "primary", etc.
> > 
> > That convo hasn't continued since last summer, so we should probably
> > pick it back up.
> > 
> > As an original proponent of the config flag, but I'm also leaning more
> > towards let's not add the config flag and just move forward with the
> > changes.
> > 
> > My $0.02— I know it seems mundane to change log messages, but folks
> > really do wire up to those for alerts an things. Before we break it
> > with change, it'd be good to be fairly certain we are not going to
> > change it twice.
> > 
> > I think we should target this for 5.18.0, given the recent build fixes
> > we need to tackle to try to get 5.17.0 done. This would give us time to
> > try to get consensus around what 'term' goes in the log message..
> > 
> > -Matt Pavlovich
> > 
> > > On Mar 1, 2022, at 1:47 PM, Christopher Shannon <
> christopher.l.shannon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Looking at it more I think that in this particular case it's not a big
> risk
> > > to include since it's just logging so it's probably fine. But as I said
> I
> > > find very little value in having a toggle mode so I would be a -1 to
> > > include in the current form and think the toggle mode should be removed.
> > > That will make the change even simpler. If you want to update and
> rebase we
> > > can get it merged.
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 1:53 PM Étienne Hossack <activemq@hossack.me>
> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Not that I disagree we should be moving to faster releases, but they've
> > > > been sitting approved for months now ready to merge, so I think it's
> > > > reasonable to request they make it in this release. (the base PR was
> > > > simplified according to comments and never revisited)
> > > > 
> > > > It's also really trivial for me to change that PR to remove the toggle
> and
> > > > happy to do so, but as it stands, the PRs were approved.
> > > > 
> > > > (FWIW I've also let JB know off this mailing list, just wanting to
> raise
> > > > visibility of that discussion now)
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > Étienne
> > > > 
> > > > On Tue, 1 Mar 2022, at 10:47 AM, Christopher Shannon wrote:
> > > > > I don't really like the toggle option. I think it just overly
> complicates
> > > > > it for no reason. I think you either change it or don't so I think it
> > > > makes
> > > > > sense to skip it for 5.17 as we are trying to finalize the release and
> > > > then
> > > > > target it for 5.18.0 and make the changes without any flags. We
> should be
> > > > > going to a faster release process so I wouldn't expect it to take too
> > > > long.
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 1:33 PM Étienne Hossack <activemq@hossack.me>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Hey all,
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > There's been a few PRs open for
> > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AMQ-7514 (specifically
> AMQ-8317)
> > > > > > that have not had traction in a while. I can rebase/re-open them,
> but it
> > > > > > would be good to get the ball rolling on these in an earlier release
> so
> > > > > > that the removal can happen in a subsequent release.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > They originally targeted 5.17.0 and I'd like to still target that
> > > > version.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Of course it was suggested from JB that we don't take the toggle
> > > > approach
> > > > > > of AMQ-8317 simply change the logging, but regardless of the approach
> > > > I'd
> > > > > > appreciate the approved PRs not to simply hang there :)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > Étienne
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Tue, 1 Mar 2022, at 7:01 AM, Matt Pavlovich wrote:
> > > > > > > @jb- no problem. I'll ping you on slack to coordinate the revert.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > On Mar 1, 2022, at 7:32 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb@nanthrax.net>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Hi
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > About jetty PR, I gonna merge it.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > For AMQ-7309, I guess Matt should revert it, right ?
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > > > JB
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Le mar. 1 mars 2022 Ã  13:43, Christopher Shannon <
> > > > > > > > christopher.l.shannon@gmail.com> a écrit :
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Where are we on the release timetable now? Looks like AMQ-7309
> still
> > > > > > needs
> > > > > > > > > to be reverted and the PR is still open for jetty.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 10:54 AM Christopher Shannon <
> > > > > > > > > christopher.l.shannon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > It's probably fine to change since the uber jar can't be used
> > > > > > anymore, as
> > > > > > > > > > long as the tests all pass for things like websocket and the web
> > > > > > console
> > > > > > > > > > fires up of course, etc.
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 10:37 AM Matt Pavlovich <
> > > > mattrpav@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > @JB Let me know if it would be helpful to look at AMQ-7309
> revert
> > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > > other release tasks. I'll be online and on Slack all day.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 28, 2022, at 9:04 AM, Christopher Shannon <
> > > > > > > > > > > christopher.l.shannon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > Good catch Robbie, I forgot about still needing to revert \
> > > > > > > > > > > > 7309
> to
> > > > > > keep
> > > > > > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > > > > the JMS 2.0 stuff in 5.18.0
> > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 9:56 AM Robbie Gemmell <
> > > > > > > > > > > robbie.gemmell@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I would say the same things (well, did on the PR). Either \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > way,
> > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > > > other thing to do seems to be creating a branch and \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > reverting
> > > > 7309.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 at 14:19, Christopher Shannon
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <christopher.l.shannon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will say that we can update the version of Jetty but if \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > you
> > > > want
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > play
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it safe since you are about the cut the release you could
> keep
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > "all"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > jar for now and do the dependency changes in 5.18.0
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 9:01 AM Christopher Shannon <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > christopher.l.shannon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1, i've never liked including jetty-all and might as \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > well
> > > > keep
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > date with a major release.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we are good to go , I did a review of a 5.17.0
> > > > snapshot
> > > > > > > > > build
> > > > > > > > > > > > > last
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > week and things looked good. I will review the official
> > > > release
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > course
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but I think we are in good shape.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 8:45 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jeanbaptiste.onofre@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi guys,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FYI, I merged log4j2 support on main for 5.17.0.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For security reasons and being up to date with Jetty, \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I
> would
> > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > include https://github.com/apache/activemq/pull/784
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thoughts ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the release, I think we are good. If there \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are no objections, I would like to submit 5.17.0 to \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vote tonight
> (my
> > > > > > > > > time).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JB
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 6:51 PM Robbie Gemmell <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > robbie.gemmell@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FWIW it seems like it should be a simple enough \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > revert
> once
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > branch
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is made. Looks like 3 files (as below) have been \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > changed
> > > > since
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > commit in a way that would need a decision upon \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > revert. I
> > > > guess
> > > > > > > > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are likely to be keeping the changes from main. \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Assuming
> so,
> > > > > > > > > seems
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like "git revert 67256c61b -Xours" would work.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Though, perhaps worth looking closer at
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > activemq-karaf/src/main/resources/features-core.xml \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to see
> > > > if
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > change there (and related property restored in the \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > module
> > > > pom
> > > > > > > > > file)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > needed, it doesnt immediately seem that related to \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the api
> > > > > > > > > change.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > both modified:   activemq-client/pom.xml
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > both modified:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > 
> activemq-karaf-itest/src/test/java/org/apache/activemq/karaf/itest/ActiveMQBrokerNdCamelFeatureTest.java
> 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > both modified:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > activemq-karaf/src/main/resources/features-core.xml
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 at 16:01, Matt Pavlovich <
> > > > > > mattrpav@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ok, lets go
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 23, 2022, at 9:27 AM, Christopher \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shannon <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > christopher.l.shannon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Matt, the reason to roll back is for what \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robbie just
> > > > said.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know the discussion originally was that the \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first step
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to include the jar with no impl and just UOE.  \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I've
> > > > been
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > convinced
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > after all the discussion the past couple weeks \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on this
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > there's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no real
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > point to doing so now because A) you already \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > get the
> same
> > > > > > > > > > > > > behavior
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > including the jar yourself and B) there will be \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > real
> > > > client
> > > > > > > > > impl
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > changes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > coming shortly with 5.18.0 it just makes a lot \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more
> sense
> > > > to
> > > > > > me
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wait and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > include everything in 5.18.0.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 9:57 AM Robbie Gemmell \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > robbie.gemmell@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It really doesnt make sense to include \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > changing the API
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 5.17.0
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without any impl, it would be very odd to \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > retain to me,
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quite
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > misleading. It may also unnecessarily \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > inconvenience
> > > > people
> > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > previously adapted their builds to other bits
> including a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely-different 2.0 API artifact if they \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > needed it and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > excluding
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 api, into updating their excludes despite \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no impl
> > > > > > change.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > It
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > makes sense to unwind it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 at 14:30, Matt Pavlovich \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > mattrpav@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Chris-
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe the JMS 2.0 impl is in good shape \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (fighting
> > > > one
> > > > > > > > > test
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > works-locally-fails-on-Apache-CI fun!). Given \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> desire
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5.17.0 out
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > soon, I can get behind allowing more time for \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > others to
> > > > > > review
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > roll
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with it in 5.18.0.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about keeping AMQ-7309 in 5.17.0 and go \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > forward
> with
> > > > > > your
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggestion
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of moving on to 5.18.0 with JMS 2.0, Jakarta \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > updates,
> > > > etc?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AMQ-7309 is well
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > reviewed and been merged for 4 months.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Matt
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 2022, at 2:10 PM, Christopher \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shannon <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > christopher.l.shannon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In terms of maintenance if we get out \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.18, 2.19, etc
> > > > then
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.17
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > get important fixes or be made EOL and we \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can move
> on.
> > > > > > Long
> > > > > > > > > > > > > lived
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > branches
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and support are not necessary if we keep \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > up with more
> > > > > > > > > > > > > frequent
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > releases.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.17.0 is at a logical cut off point \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > where it's at
> now
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > definitely
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not in favor of adding something brand \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > new (Jakarta
> > > > > > changes)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > last
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > minute
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I doubt others are either.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So again..it's time to move on. As \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everyone else
> > > > already
> > > > > > > > > > > > > seems
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to be in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > agreement with (JB, Tim, Robbie) let's \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just do the
> > > > release
> > > > > > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > week
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the current changes and then move on to \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.18.0 with
> JMS
> > > > > > 2.0,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jakarta
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > updates, etc.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 2:49 PM Matt \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pavlovich <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mattrpav@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey All-
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I get the idea that getting a JDK \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 11-based released
> > > > is a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > good
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thing,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also think we should consider the \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jakarta alignment
> as
> > > > > > part
> > > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > active
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > branches are supported. This is the \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > path other
> > > > projects
> > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > taken and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > helps users align things when they are \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > assembling
> > > > pieces
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > environment
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we go with the proposed plan in this \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thread-- we
> > > > add
> > > > > > JDK
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 11,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > move the ball forward on anything \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jakarta related —
> we
> > > > > > add
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > another
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > active
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > branch to maintain. As log4j showed us, \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > having a
> > > > bunch of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > active
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > branches
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > out there is a lot of work when it is \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time to crank
> > > > out
> > > > > > > > > > > > > security
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fixes.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Additionally, keeping up with Jetty and \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other
> > > > > > dependencies
> > > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > going to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > become more difficult if we do not \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > start taking
> steps
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > align
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JDK +
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jakarta in supported branches.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also feel that the current status of \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the JMS 2.0
> > > > phased
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > implementation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is closer to done than the amount of \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > work to revert
> > > > > > > > > > > > > AMQ-7309.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PR-729
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > has
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 200+ test cases and has addressed all \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > feedback as of
> > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > morning.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JMS 2.0 tested and validated:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - All destinations (queue, topic, \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temp-topic,
> > > > temp-queue)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > message
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > types (bytes, map, object, stream, and \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >                 text)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - All message property types (bytes, \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > string, int,
> > > > float,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > double,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > short,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > etc.) including min+max data ranges
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Foreign message support
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Range checking on priority and \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >                 deliveryMode
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Topic Durable Subscriber (JMS v1.x \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alignment) 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Matt Pavlovich
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 22, 2022, at 8:16 AM, \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jb@nanthrax.net>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Matt @Robbie @Tim is it ok for you \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to have 5.17.0
> > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spring5,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > log4j2, JDK11 and include JMS2 in \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5.18.0 that can
> > > > happen
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quickly ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JB
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 3:09 PM \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christopher Shannon \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <christopher.l.shannon@gmail.com> \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm +1 on moving forward without \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JMS 2.0 until
> > > > 5.18.0.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > reality
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no consensus to keep it in \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5.17.0. There
> are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > multiple
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > people
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do not want to include it in 5.17.0 so \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's time to
> > > > move
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also need to revert the commits from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \
> > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > waiting for the end of Jenkins).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'm creating Apache POM 25 \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >                 update PR
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - I'm creating Spring 5.3.16 \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > update PR 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, ActiveMQ 5.17.0 is almost \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ready from this
> > > > > > > > > standpoint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I would like to start the vote \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > asap, It would
> be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > great to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > act
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JMS2. Do you want me to start \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with different
> > > > options ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JB
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 5:55 AM \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jean-Baptiste
> > > > Onofré <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jb@nanthrax.net>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi guys,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I worked on the log4j2 update \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PR this weekend,
> > > > fixing
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > almost all
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unit
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tests using a custom appender. \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just have to
> fix
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > activemq-web-demo test and \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > squash, and the PR
> > > > will be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > good
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > merged. I will do that today.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, later today and tomorrow \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will work on
> > > > using
> > > > > > > > > > > > > jetty
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > modules
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > instead of jetty-all and update \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to Jetty 9.4.45. 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will do a pass on Jira and \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PRs, especially the
> > > > ones
> > > > > > > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Matt.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Matt
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can you please ping me on slack \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to check
> together
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > status of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PRs ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding this, I would like to \
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > submit 5.17.0 to
> > > > vote
> > > > > > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thursday if
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there are no objections.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JB
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > 
> 



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